Today on the 20 Minute Fitness podcast’s ‘Why I Built This’ mini series, we have Billie Whitehouse a real business lady all the way from Australia. Billie is the CEO, designer and director of Wearable X, “a fashion-tech company that brings together design and technology to create a better quality of life.”
After graduating with Bachelor’s & Master’s degrees in design and fashion, Billie had decided to break the traditional career path of the fashion industry and step to the forefront of fashion and tech’s convergence instead. With this decision, Wearable X and a sequence of fascinating projects were born. These projects included garments that help the wearer find her destination using integrated LED lighting and haptic feedback. And jerseys that allow fans to feel what the players feel in real time.
However what really put Wearable X in the spotlight was Billie’s new product launch, which shifted the focus to the world of yoga. Press play to learn about Billie’s journey and how she’s finally arrived to her latest development, Nadi X aka the smartest yoga pants in the world!
Three Things You Will Learn
1) Nadi X – The Next Generation Yoga Instructor
Yoga has been gaining a lot of traction in recent years, but innovation wise we haven’t really left the software space yet. Until, of course, Nadi X was born.
Nadi X is a pair of smart yoga pants with embedded sensors that track how your body’s moving through each pose. The Nadi X pants and app guide you through your yoga workout with not just visual and audio, but also haptic feedback. So as you move through each pose, the pants will use vibration to let you know whether your body is in the correct orientation.
Listen to this week’s episode to learn more about how Nadi X uses vibration as a language to improve your yoga poses day by day!
2) Why Nadi X Is Better Than Your Average Yoga App
If you’re into yoga and doesn’t always have time to hit a studio, chances are that you have at least one yoga app installed on your phone. While these apps provide some basic guidance as to how your workout should look like, that’s really all they do.
On the other hand, Nadi X brings a more efficient way of coaching. It makes sure that you work both on your body and your mind at the same time.
By designing a pair of smart pants with the accompanying mobile app, Billie built a fully integrated solution. Nadi X creates a seamless yoga experience powered by technology that fades into the background. Which ultimately allows you to practice and master yoga with professional help within the comfort of your own home.
Press play to hear how Billie’s education influenced her journey with Nadi X!
3) The Evolution Of Nadi X
Today Nadi X might seem like the obvious solution to the issues Billie wanted to solve, but of course it hasn’t always been this way. As most innovative products, Nadi X has been through a number of iterations as well.
The first version of Nadi X was released to customers in 2017. It currently focuses on one main feature, which is at home independent yoga practice. The next step will be adding two extra features: 1) take your Nadi X to your favorite yoga studio & 2) join a live virtual yoga class with Nadi X from your own living room.
But of course there’s a lot more to Nadi X than just personal yoga practice. Billie also has some ambitious plans to working with physiotherapist and turning her innovation into an aid for post-injury recovery.
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00:02 Martin Kessler: Hey, and welcome back to “Why I built this” on a 20 Minute Fitness Podcast. I’m Martin Kessler and on every episode I bring to you the creator behind an exciting start-up company that is re-making a difference in health or fitness. Today on the 20 Minute Fitness Podcast, we have an entrepreneur hailing from Australia, Billie Whitehouse. Billie is the CEO, designer and director of Wearable X, a fashion tech company that brings together design and technology, to create a better quality of life. After graduating with a degree in fashion and design Billie had decided to break the conventional career path within the fashion industry. With Wearable X she decided to form a company that would empower fashion through the use of technology. Wearable X has already worked on a number of different projects such as garments that would help the wearer finding their destination using integrated LED lighting and haptic feedback all the way to athletic jerseys that would allow fans to simultaneously feel and experience live, what the athletes on the field would be feeling as well. Learn about Billie’s journey, and how she finally arrived to her latest development: The Nadi X, the first of its kind smart yoga pants.
01:05 MK: But before we move on, I’d like to thank our sponsor, Shape. As you may know. Team Shape’s being working on a 3D body scanner called ShapeScale, and we’re currently looking for new engineers in both hardware and software. If you know someone, or if you’re interested yourself, you can head to our careers page at shapescale.com/careers. Finally, if you guys like the podcast, and enjoy tuning in, please don’t hold back from giving us a five-star rating on iTunes. It only takes really five seconds for you, but it really could help others to discover our wonderful podcast.
01:36 MK: Hey everyone, we’re here in San Francisco and today I actually have on the line Billie Whitehouse from Wearable X. Billie, why don’t you introduce yourself a little?
01:45 Billie Whitehouse: Hi there. Yes, it’s such a pleasure to be here with you all. My name’s Billie Whitehouse. I’m the CEO and founder of Wearable X. We specialize in smart textiles and we’ve been building, I would say, a variety of different products, the last six years. And the most sophisticated version of this product is something we released at the end of 2017 called Nadi X. It’s a yoga line that has embedded sensors and haptic feedback that guides you where to focus while practicing yoga.
02:09 MK: So how does it look like? We’re on a podcast, and a lot of our listeners probably have never heard of Nadi X. I’m seeing like a pair of yoga pants. And what is different about them?
02:18 BW: Yeah, so they have embedded sensors, embedded accelerometers in the hips, the knees and the ankles, and they are all paired back with your smartphone, which guides you through step by step how to move into each yoga pose, and then you get vibrational feedback on the body as to where to focus, and then you get audio feedback at the end of each pose to let you know if you made it into the pose or if you should go back and try again.
02:39 MK: So how do you get audio feedback, like the pants actually pair to my Bluetooth headphones, or how does it work?
02:44 BW: Yeah, so it paired via Bluetooth to your smartphone, and then your smartphone guides you and has the audio instructions through, so just make sure the volume is turned up and you can hear the audio instructions, take you through step-by-step and then also let you know at the end of each pose, whether you made it.
02:57 MK: Very cool. So I have both audio and video feedback. Or is it mostly audio then?
03:01 BW: No, there’s both audio and visual feedback. The visual feedback has both written and visual instructions in there as well.
03:08 MK: Oh, that sounds really great. And so what are the sensors for just so we can all imagine like how all plays together?
03:14 BW: So, the accelerometers are there to understand your body’s orientation and then the vibrational feedback helps you optimize that orientation. And the practice of yoga is actually very interesting. It’s both quite spiritual, it’s a mental practice, it’s as well a physical practice. And then what we wanna do with the vibrational feedback is really draw your attention to that part of the body, so take your mind’s focus and say, “Okay this is me focusing on the back of my legs, grounding down towards the ground.” Now, in doing that, we have the haptic feedback to help you really get your attention to the parts of the body that you need to focus on.
03:46 MK: And do you also get feedback as a user, like on your phone? That’s what I like about going to a yoga class. I have the instructor that sometimes corrects my form because I’m a total newbie, when it comes to all the different poses that there are around yoga.
04:00 BW: Yeah, so that’s where at the end of each pose you get the feedback about whether you made it into the pose or if you should go back and try again.
04:05 MK: And do you also allow your customers to build a path to certain poses that might be more difficult on day one?
04:12 BW: That is certainly what is coming in 2019. So, part of what we’ve got in the app and I’m not sure if you’ve seen it in the app store already, but it is, it’s on the Nadi X. Please download it. The way it ships right now, it’s built for beginners so people who are trying out new poses for the first time, who don’t necessarily wanna do a full slow, or certainly don’t have time to take the hour sometimes, hour and a half of their day to do that. But they know that their body needs to work on particular poses or they’re interested in trying a particular pose. That’s what they have. The app is built so that they can take it home with them, they can practice on their own terms, and they can really do it step-by-step, at their own pace.
04:45 MK: So it’s kinda like my own yoga studio on the go or at home. And I suppose you have different sizes of classes, like some workouts are maybe just under 20 minutes, some are longer or how does that look?
04:58 BW: Yeah, so you can do the beginning to end every single pose, and that takes about 40 minutes, or you can jump around, and choose which poses you want to work with, and then that’s entirely up to you how long you wanna spend.
05:08 MK: Wow, that’s really convenient actually. So how did you get through it? How long have you been working on it, on Nadi X in particular?
05:15 BW: We first put pencil to paper on this particular product in around May of 2015. That doesn’t mean that we really started building any hardware until, I would say more… We had some basic hardware prototypes in 2015, but it really didn’t start getting into finding the right factories, and doing all the rapid prototyping until 2016. There’s multiple iterations of this particular product that’s been out there. It’s definitely a product that I care both very emotional about but also we put blood, sweat and tears and so we put physical exertion into this product too. I think that when I have a particular practice that I think is important and interesting and I think the technology shouldn’t just be about quantification, I think it needs to enhance and enchant our lives, and I really believe that haptics as a language on the body has an opportunity to do something really magical. It’s how we experience the world. This is just the beginning of that, and I can’t take claim for everything. I have an amazing team of people who’ve helped me over the years to build many things. So, this is just the beginning.
06:14 MK: Yeah, and when you say we, who’s we right now? And what did you guys do before? Because Nadi X is not your first product, right?
06:20 BW: Well, it’s the first product we took direct-to-consumer by ourselves. And when I refer to we, I just refer to the people inside Wearable Experiments, which may have been many, and varied over the years.
06:29 MK: And where are you guys based?
06:30 BW: We’re New York based. So, the majority of the HQ is in New York. We manufacture in Sri Lanka. We’ve had some teams, both in LA, in Sydney, in Colombo. At one point in time, we had a little bit more of a focus on the European market.
06:44 MK: Why Sydney in particular?
06:45 BW: Well, that’s where I’m from, and…
06:47 MK: That’s where the circle closes?
06:48 BW: Yes, certainly where our original product were engineered. It’s even where I did all of our original prototyping, so it was great to have some ties back to where my family is, and where I like to visit on holiday.
07:00 MK: So did you actually end up moving for Wearable X to New York? Is that how it happened?
07:03 BW: Yes, I did. I ended up moving.
07:05 MK: And then why is that?
07:07 BW: The US sports market it’s the biggest market in the world, so you’ve gotta do what’s right for the business.
07:11 MK: And yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about what actually motivated you of coming up with the idea and how that actually came about.
07:19 BW: Yeah, so in moving to the US, I started… I’d been practicing yoga before, but I started getting a little bit more diligent with my practice.
07:26 MK: And you were practicing at home or in a studio?
07:29 BW: Actually it was studio based. So I was frustrated enormously by the fact that I was spending quite an inordinate amount of money on my yoga practice. So I was spending a minimum of $20 every class and I was going several times a week. And often I wouldn’t get any feedback, and I would still be trying a new pose and really having no idea whether I was achieving anything that was even good for me. And sometimes I’d get teachers swapped around last minute. Sometimes the music would be terrible. So I just overall got frustrated with the experience. And I didn’t want to be in a room full of 50 people sweating next to someone I don’t know and not getting any feedback or any adjustments. So not only show… We had been building things with haptic feedback and I realized that there was an opportunity for this as a language. The more I practiced yoga, the more I realized that vibration is this really powerful language and it’s being talked about and utilized in that industry for a long time. And that this actually could be applied and it’s something we’d already started exploring so it was a natural fit for me.
08:19 MK: And when you guys were exploring was what you have right now, the first concept that you guys had, or did you play with different ideas at first?
08:26 BW: Oh, many different variations. Some of that is hardware. Some of that is software. Some of that is physical design. It’s changed many, many times.
08:34 MK: Oh, yeah, I’m sure of it. I’m pretty sure you have been asked that before, but what actually brought you into also designing the pants and integrating them with haptic feedback? Why didn’t you first start with just a mobile app that was like giving you yoga instruction?
08:48 BW: Well, for me, the whole practice is a physical practice. But the more we actually spoke to professional athletes and often people we used yoga for recovery or even post-injury, the more we realized that they actually didn’t find that getting statistics or the just visual feedback was enough for them to actually make physical change. So truthfully to effect change in a professional, you have to work on both mind and body at the same time. And even the professional athletes we work with now, when we talk to them about how to achieve optimal performance, they actually say it’s more than 90% mental. And yoga, itself is very much, I would say, this simultaneous practice. So in starting to explore, do we do software, do we do hardware, do we apparel? You also have to talk to your skill-sets. I’m a designer by heart, so I build things, I make things.
09:32 MK: So I guess you weren’t scared of having to integrate technology with garment, right?
09:37 BW: I would say ignorance is bliss. [chuckle] I don’t think I knew how hard it was at the beginning, but I’m glad I didn’t know because I was so… I would say, I had so much gumption in doing it and I’m so proud of what we’ve done.
09:48 MK: Yeah, you probably wouldn’t have dared to do it otherwise, right?
09:51 BW: Oh, I don’t know. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna keep doing it forever.
09:54 MK: So, let’s talk a bit more about your background, you were saying you were working in design, what do you mean by that?
10:00 BW: Yep, so I have a degree in design and then I did a Master’s program in design in Italy. And I specialized in well, odd things, it was sort of like a big focus on knitwear at the college we went to. And it was fabulous. It was unlike anything I’ve ever done. It was fashion is art, such a beautiful exploration of technology in a very different sense. So the technologies that go behind design like knitwear, like velcro, like nylon and how do we make those into really beautiful experiences on the body. And I thoroughly enjoyed that. That was the best year of my life. And then came home to Australia, worked very thoroughly inside the family business and worked on everything from writing course curriculum to really getting further into how the industry relates back to education and then doing a lot with industry liaisons, and eventually coming up with a plan, what technologies do they need to integrate. What new business, what else can they have around those new technologies. And then in doing that research, I found a few pieces of the puzzle that ended up really informing how I went out and build our first product.
10:58 MK: Like what were those pieces like? What really got you into it?
11:02 BW: I mean truthfully, a lot of it was research. Some of that was about sensors, some of that was about 3D printing, in material science, and some of it was just knowing that there are other people building a bunch of weird stuff out there. So having the confidence and seeing what other people were doing, I was like, “Oh that’s not Rocket Science. We can all do that too.”
11:19 MK: And then how do you think like… So, your background in fashion and design, how do you think… Do you actually think that it helped you building Nadi X in any kind of way?
11:27 BW: I believe so.
11:28 MK: And then how do you think it influenced your product now?
11:30 BW: The really important things from a form factor were… We really wanted to make sure that the hardware was engineered for the garment, not as something that you slap on secondarily. It’s not like a, “Oh, cool strap it on here. Strap it on there. A lot of people already got a piece of the towel.” It had to be integrated and I had to be seamless and it had to be as invisible as possible, and then it had to create a really interesting experience. And that to me was a part of what we learned in our masters in Italy, and that’s part of how relate to that design and technology. I think when technology fades into the background, that’s when it’s the most successful. That being said, there’s also some amazing learnings with trying to sell something that’s invisible it’s really hard.
12:06 MK: Yeah, yeah, so let’s talk a bit more about that. Like what have you learned, ’cause I’m sure it wasn’t easy to make technology fade in the background, right?
12:13 BW: Well, I would say that from a customer’s standpoint, if they can’t see that your product is differentiated, I would say, in a sort of quite obvious way, it’s harder for them to understand why. That being said, it’s come up with really interesting messaging around how it actually does save people time and why that is the purpose of it. And in fact, we try and talk about the experience rather than the technology as the main goal here. When we started getting that language around it, it obviously changed. There’s certainly trial and error in integrating electronics and apparel to make them invisible. There are many pairs of pants that look like they belong to Frankenstein at one point in time. We just have to make… Well, really draw a line in the sand and say when you’ll accept something and when you won’t. Sometimes it’s really hard being that person who has to, I would say, set the timeline, and hurry people along and scream when shit doesn’t work. It’s not easy being that person, but sometimes you just gotta do it.
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14:26 MK: Right. And then how did it evolve over time, like do you guys face some hurdles when you were actually putting Nadi X in front of your first users? Did it turn out like you expected in terms of the user experience?
14:39 BW: Yeah, we made some changes to the software. Our original version of the software had three different features where you could practice at home by yourself. You could take it into a studio, or you could do in fact a live class. Now there… We’ve actually removed the second and third options for the moment, ’cause we really wanted to get people using it and understanding them and seeing how they’re operating with it and really learn from the data, and then add those features later on and actually attach that to a subscription service. So certainly some lessons. I always thought the people would wanna take them into class. It seems like people are actually really happy to practice at home and on their own terms, and that’s something I certainly heard your voice change around.
15:15 MK: So why do you think people would have actually wanted to take it to class, for instance?
15:19 BW: Well, because that’s how I was using the product at the time. I think it was probably selfish of me.
15:23 BW: But I… For me, that’s how I was planning to use it. I would take it to a class and I would want the vibrational feedback while I was in the class. Some people do, some people don’t. The way we’re going to launch that is actually so you can get more of an assessment post-class of how well you did in that class. And that’s slightly different to the way I was originally gonna do it.
15:40 MK: Yeah, so your initial thought was really of building a tool to help you do better in yoga and become better at it, no matter where you do it, right, whether you practice at home or whether you practice in a studio. But the final result turned out to be somewhat different, right, because you do that, plus now you really have that on-demand class practice feature to it, right?
16:00 BW: Absolutely. I think being able to practice on your own terms is always part of it, just we wanted other features as well so that we could broaden our market and reach more people, and we still will do this. It’s just about managing the messaging and managing the software properly at the right time. And I think, I’m really proud of all the things we’ve done. I wouldn’t say that… I think you sort of have to go big and then narrow. No, I think that’s the right approach.
16:20 MK: Yeah, so speaking of going big, what do you see coming next for you guys? Like, do you think you’re always gonna stay with yoga, or are you planning on expanding to different forms of exercising or even going all the way into meditation, for instance?
16:35 BW: Yeah. I mean, the Savasana, I would say, sequence is one of my favorites. So I find that very meditative. But from our next steps in our product, from that perspective, the part that’s really interesting to us is how people are using the product already. So a lot of people are using it for a post-injury, or they’re very nervous about their body because they have either a pending injury that they think is coming. So what we’re really interested in opening up to our back-end is a range of physiotherapists who can then see that their patient is either doing their poses and/or not doing their poses correctly or not doing them at all. They can be held accountable, their physiotherapist can recommend more poses for them to do. So it’s really yoga as physical therapy, and… As well as then moving into new postures that may be… As the physiotherapist recommended.
17:18 MK: And how long have you guys been on the market actually?
17:21 BW: So we launched end of 2017, so just over a year.
17:24 MK: And how has your first year been so far? Was it like what you expected and hoping for, or how does it look?
17:28 BW: Yeah, what a whirlwind. And very exciting stuff. We actually, we’ve won several big awards.
17:33 MK: Oh, congrats.
17:34 BW: We got our first Company’s Most Innovative Company of the Year in 2017, and then last year we won the Fashion Group International Design Technology Award, which was… Those things are phenomenal, and we can’t really dream of them ever happening with this sort of always keep going, and there’s always more to be done, and it doesn’t matter what happens, it never feels like it’s finished. So there’s more to do, and we’re excited to keep building and growing. I’m really excited for partnerships in 2019. I’m really excited for this new physical therapy development that we’re working on.
18:03 MK: Right.
18:03 BW: And it’s gonna be a big year.
18:04 MK: Any partnerships that you can already soft announce?
18:07 BW: No, not yet.
18:08 MK: Any pointers, any directions those partnerships are gonna go towards to?
18:12 BW: No, not even a little bit. [chuckle]
18:14 MK: All right, all right. Well, we’re gonna keep a tap on that, then. And yeah, what do you see in the long run for you guys, like beyond partnerships and physical therapy, what’s the big vision of Wearable X actually?
18:29 BW: So the big vision has kind of actually been the same the whole time, which is pretty amazing. It’s integrated technologies that help you feel, and that’s feel your best, that’s feel connected to other humans, that’s feel connected to yourself. And our original mission six years ago was building products that actually help you stay connected with your life, and in the best possible way, in a really human way, rather than a really hyper-technology screen-driven way. And that’s been our big mission the whole time. Now, how that comes to fruition in my perspective is, the Nadi themselves are a network of communication that exists around the body that happens when you align all your chakras correctly. Now, what I believe that we are creating in building Nadi is the first step into this bigger, let’s say, ether of communication that can exist around the body that can both empower and enchant everything that we do. Now, the way I describe this is imagine a bubble of data, and imagine it looking rather like a highway of cars travelling into a city.
19:22 MK: Right.
19:23 BW: It’s a beautiful highway of information that exists around the body that you can tap into. You can open those doors and shut those doors as you choose, but ultimately you own it and you have control over it and you are empowered by it and enchanted by it. And eventually if it’s tapped into the blockchain you can earn money off it, and it could be a really interesting, I would say, version of enchanting our lives with data and information that isn’t just owned by the enterprises.
19:47 MK: Wow, that’s an interesting direction. That’s, yeah, I can totally see that overall digital health can or will go in that direction, right?
19:55 BW: Well, that’s what I believe is happening.
19:57 MK: So yeah, I mean… So how can people learn more about Nadi X. I supposed you guys have a website, right?
20:03 BW: Absolutely, so it’s, wearablex.com. It’s W-E-A-R-A-B-L-E-X.com. And, I would say the part that’s really exciting for us is, if people who are interested in yoga or if they are scared of yoga, or if they have an injury, we think that come and try our products. We’re making changes all the time and we would love people’s feedbacks, so it’s an exciting time.
20:24 MK: And if somebody wants to order one right now in the US, they can simply do that from your website, or where can they buy it?
20:29 BW: Yep. You can buy them on the website. You can buy them on Amazon, and we do pop-ups all over the country.
20:33 MK: And what’s the price?
20:35 BW: $249.
20:35 MK: Got it. And that includes everything, right?
20:38 BW: Of course.
20:38 MK: And you were saying, there’s also service to it, or that’s something that you plan to do in the future?
20:43 BW: That’s the future. That’s if you’re planning to take the physical therapy route.
20:46 MK: Great. I just wanna round up our conversation with a quick-fire round. So, I’m gonna ask you a few questions where I really don’t want you to think too hard and long about them. Just give me a quick answer off what comes to your mind. Sounds good?
21:00 BW: Sounds good.
21:01 MK: So obviously, besides Nadi X, do you use any other fitness wearables or gadgets?
21:05 BW: Gadgets? No.
21:06 MK: How about apps?
21:07 BW: Apologies. I don’t exactly fire at it. Do you know what I use? I use the secret, and I paid for that.
21:11 MK: Alright. Following on on that. Was there ever any advice given to you that was really, really great, that really changed things for the better for you?
21:19 BW: I would say this was both hyper positive and something to be taken with a grain of salt. A quote from an investor: She said, “If by the time you release, you’re no longer embarrassed by the product, you waited too long”.
21:29 MK: Yeah, that’s a good one.
21:30 BW: I agree, but I also disagree. I think, there’s worthiness in taking true time on something, and more so because you should be listening to the customer more than yourself. So I would say, “Listen to them, they’re always right”.
21:41 MK: And I would say, just to add on that, for a heart where it can be sometimes a little bit more difficult to accomplish that right because if you release something that’s a complete failure, that doesn’t really meet their expectation, then you end up with a product that will have bad reviews. And you may not have the money or the time left to really reiterate on that product and get a good successful product out.
22:04 BW: Of course.
22:05 MK: Yeah. What do you think gets you motivated for your next workout, typically?
22:09 BW: It’s so interesting. I would say, normally, I’m not that way inclined. I love the endorphins, remembering the way I feel. I could say I’m addicted to it. And that being said, I’m very much one of my own customers now, and my body is changing, and I do have to be more sensitive towards it. And I am very much taking it a lot easier now than I ever have. And I would say, the posture is much more of a “Barry’s boot camp” kind of girl. And then, yoga once or twice a week. But I’m definitely being more sensitive. I think it’s important to look after yourself. For me, it’s like, “listen to your body, your body always knows best”, and then, figure out what’s best to you. But at least three times a week is good.
22:44 MK: Awesome. And do you have a favorite book that you would recommend our listeners?
22:47 BW: I have so many favorite books.
22:48 MK: If one only came to your mind, which one would it be?
22:55 MK: And what’s good about The Alchemist and Flow?
22:57 BW: Well, let’s go with Flow first. I think, it talks about flow states. Nadi another word for “flow” in Sanskrit. So it speaks about understanding your optimal way of living, and it uses really interesting case studies to understand that everyone has a different form of flow, that it quantifies it in a really interesting way. And I think it helps people to understand how to achieve it for themselves. And The Alchemist truly, for me was such beautiful, simple yet complex anecdote around our relationship with the universe. And I think it’s an ongoing quest for people to keep reminding themselves of what that is.
23:28 MK: Well, that sounds very deep. Alright. Finally, what is the most annoying question you think people ask you all the time?
23:36 BW: Oh, I mean, this is a frustrating one, “Can you make it for cycling?” That is what many people say. And like, “But why do people want vibrational feedback to cycling? I don’t understand.”
23:46 MK: Yeah. What would you get out of it?
23:48 BW: I don’t know, but every white man asks me that question.
23:51 MK: Really?
23:52 BW: Yep.
23:52 MK: I would have expected maybe for, I don’t know, resistance training, cross-fit or some other group exercise of some sort.
24:00 BW: That’s far more interesting, and something that I would happily achieve. Yeah, it turns out that’s not the question we get asked.
24:04 MK: Yeah. Well, anyways. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Billie. Is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience?
24:10 BW: Just dream big, have a good time doing it, then you can’t go wrong.
24:13 MK: Awesome. That’s a good motto to have. Well, thanks, again. Take care. Bye.
24:16 BW: You too. Cheers. Bye-bye.
24:18 MK: And that wraps up our show for today. As always, we put everything mentioned on our show, on our show notes which you can find at 20minute.fitness. Also feel free to email us at firstname.lastname@example.org and just let us know your feedback and thoughts and don’t also hesitate to suggest any potential guest that you would like to see on the podcast. If you’re enjoying podcast, please make sure to give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcast, or leave us a review on any of your favorite podcasting apps. Doing so really helps other listeners to discover this podcast, and also learn more about the latest and greatest in fitness and health tech. Thanks, again, for listening. I’m your host Martin Kessler. And also, a big shout out to our awesome producer Lilla Laczo, without whom this show wouldn’t be possible. We hope to see you here next time. Take it easy.